Dmitry ROGOZIN: "Prospects of settlement I do not see for today". The Vice-premier of the Russian Federation Dmitry ROGOZIN who is also the co-chairman Moldavian-Russian межправкомиссии and the special representative of the president of Russia across Dnestr region, has told to the editor-in-chief "КоммерсантЪ-MD" to Vladimir СОЛОВЬЕВУ about results of the visit to Kishinev and Tiraspol on November, 16-17th, that stirs Russia and Moldova to sign the new gas contract and why, in its opinion, Dnestr settlement was at a deadlock.
- From your recent visit to Moldova and Dnestr region opening of consulate of the Russian Federation in Tiraspol waited hardly probable not. But it was found out, that you with the Moldavian party have only agreed to agree on this question. - is not present, we open one consulate. - but after all not in Tiraspol. - we initially spoke about two consulates. And directly before a trip I had to raise the question price because I did not see the big prospects from session межправкомиссии on other plots. At a meeting with Moldavian prime minister Vladimir Filatom I have told, that for us and for me personally opening of consulates - the important question. We the big country, and we do not presume, that at us the problems connected at all with economy or with any other questions were not solved, and is concrete with people. These expectations should be realised, and I consider as success that has occurred. We have agreed about consulate general opening in Beltsy. Филат has confirmed, that at receipt of the official demand in this respect from the Russian Federation - and it will be issued in the near future - the government of Moldova will make the decision on consulate opening in Beltsy. As to consulate in Tiraspol we wish to legalise actions which already we undertake. In Tiraspol instead of two consular workers of exit consular group will be ten persons. We expand presence there. Repair of a new building comes to an end, we deliver technics who will allow to accelerate document circulation. Today to our citizens to change or prolong action of the passport, it is necessary to register in reception to the consular worker for ten months. This mockery. Now 170 thousand citizens of Russia in Dnestr region can faster solve the consular and passport questions. So de facto we already operate in interests of our people. And for the question decision de jure the first on November, 22nd will pass межмидовские consultations on this theme. Earlier the Moldavian party evaded from official negotiations on this question. Now ice has got under way. To move it is necessary consistently, without sharp movements and jerks. I trust words of the Moldavian prime minister and is ready to wait for performance of arrangements, including taking into account a situation in ruling coalition of Moldova. The Dnestr management had a similar understanding of a situation. - yes, but Moldavian president Nikolay Timofti has told, that at first a withdrawal of Russian troops from Dnestr region and region transition under jurisdiction of Kishinev, and then consulate. - I prefer to pay attention to statements of my basic Kishinev interlocutor. It is prime minister Vladimir Filat. - In what volume Russia is going to render to Dnestr region the financial help? - Russia annually allocates to Dnestr region the humanitarian help for surcharges to pensioners, irrespective of their nationality, and on improvement of quality of a food in preschool and in medical institutions. Now Russia considers possibility of allocation of the additional help in great volume for social and economic needs. - great volume is what? - We will solve till the end of this year, proceeding from our budgetary possibilities. We understand, that the republic is in isolation both from Westerners, and from Moldova, and this isolation becomes tougher. We explained in Kishinev, that it to do it is not necessary, that it is a wrong, short-sighted position which is reflected in position of simple people, and Russia will protect the rights of the citizens. It is not so much Dnestr region as the subject, how many the population right. On it direct financial support also will go. Is after all also "curve" support. - you mean free for приднестровцев the Russian gas? - Yes. Also there is a gas debt, which завис and which enough big (the debts of Dnestr region for gas make an order $3,5 billion - "Ъ-MD"). We in negotiations with Kishinev always consider it and we try to explain to our Moldavian colleagues, that if they consider, that at them the general state with Dnestr region and the principle of territorial integrity is indestructible, also a debt their this general. "We cannot trust words about good intentions"
- On a debt it would be desirable to stop separately. " Молдовагаз "is Russian-Moldavian joint venture (joint venture) where 50 % belong to"Gazprom". In Dnestr region in gas trades"Тираспольтрансгаз"which left submission of Kishinev and whose actions are in confidential management of"Gazprom". Leaves, that"Gazprom"to itself does not pay. And here Kishinev? - Such schemes, including the scheme of the Russian presence at the property of the local gas-transport enterprises, were generated as a result of absence of payments for gas. We go on creation of such joint ventures and we carry on negotiations on the further expansion of presence of"Gazprom"in Moldova in exchange for not paid to"Gazprom", so Russia, money. Anything surprising here is not present. We consider, and the Moldavian party never called it into question, that debts which are formed, are debts in front of Russia, instead of before any managing subjects. And if the country the general, also a debt at it the general. And if in Moldova say, that Dnestr gas is not our gas there is a question: how much seriously Moldavian party estimates prospects of the statehood on the future? - But Kishinev does not supervise Dnestr region. And the Moldavian vice-premier, unlike you, cannot visit Tiraspol. - why? - Because there are lists of the Moldavian officials to which entrance to Dnestr region is forbidden. - it seems to me, they have thought up it. During a dinner with my Moldavian colleague Valery Lazerom (the vice-premier, the head of Ministry of Economics moldovy. - "Ъ-MD") he to me has told: I, unfortunately, cannot go to Tiraspol - I in the black list. I to it at all have told: sit down to me in the car and have gone, we will visit the Moldavian state district power station, you will spend the night in Tiraspol. - and it that? - There was a mute pause. It seems to me, these are more fairy tales, than a reality. Well will occur to dear enough person Valery Lazerom who is not got mixed up in any way in bloody events of 1992? What to it will occur, if it goes to Dnestr region? Here, in my opinion, there is a certain inertia of inventions and stereotypes. Proceeding from it steady representation is formed, that there or here to go it is impossible. But they (officials of Dnestr region and moldovy. - "Ъ-MD") should communicate. If they wish to solve questions how they will do it? By phone or through mass-media? - You discussed a question of signing of the new gas contract with the Moldavian party, but encouraging news on this theme have not informed. To sign the contract stirs only that fact, what Kishinev was obliged to introduce the Third European энергопакет? - Only энергопакет. - I so understand, that a position of Moscow the following: or Kishinev refuses introduction энергопакета and then receives the discount of 30 %, or does not refuse and does not receive. - approximately so. We have transferred to the Moldavian partners a comprehensive plan, which chairman of our government Dmitry Medvedev has stated to Vladimir Filatu when that was in Moscow in September of this year. President Putin has confirmed in Sochi, what yes, such is our position. On this theme Vladimir Vladimirovicha with Vladimir Vasilevichem had difficult enough conversation. We, to tell the truth, are a little surprised by that Moldavians so trust the Bruxelles partners in it энергопакету. Ours, and not only our lawyers who have made examination of these agreements, assert, that they can be reconsidered at any time. Moreover, we from Bruxelles have an information that Power strategy of Moldova till 2030 "is considered", it to us well-wishers подраскрыли, - on former work I still had there some informants. According to this strategy with which the Moldavian partners from us have modestly covered with a newspaper, the government of Moldova incurs obligations of stage-by-stage realisation of all positions of the second and the third энергопакетов by 2017. That is to us speak one, and operate a little differently. We have the experience of dialogue with Bruxelles and we can tell, that without legal guarantees of observance of a package of our arrangements with Moldova we cannot go on any transactions. Especially taking into account that obligations of Moldova to Bruxelles are that that their intranational decisions can force to reconsider them even. Kishinev has obviously hurried to enter into power agreements with Bruxelles. Now it is awkward to them to depart from them, but thus they get to a difficult situation in relations with us because we cannot trust words about good intentions. "Even there were any shifts in the spring, but then all has turned sour"
- Dnestr region says about the Euroasian integration and that it wishes to be with Russia. How it is possible in conditions непризнанности region? Also what in this respect think in Russia? - If there is a territory where compactly lives a considerable quantity of citizens of the Russian Federation (and 170 thousand persons is much, is comparable on a population to some subjects of the Russian Federation) our constitutional debt - to support our people. Including in realisation of their economic rights. For this purpose it is necessary to assist in restoration of an economic economy. So here at us clear, firm and nobody a criticised position though the Russian Federation never recognised Dnestr region as independent republic. And that Dnestr region has chosen for itself such way so after all blood here flew. From the point of view of international law there are two principles which are in the conflict with each other: a principle of territorial integrity and a principle of self-determination of the people. And only in one case the principle of self-determination becomes above territorial integrity is when the people are exposed to threat of physical destruction, a genocide. The similar situation took place to be in 2008 in South Ossetia, and Russia then has gone on a recognition. In Dnestr region similar threat was in 1992. Then there was no recognition from Russia, but, basically, it could be at that time because there was a blood and real threat of destruction of the population. Now, when blood is not present and there is a possibility to assist Dnestr region in creation of conditions for economic prosperity and a safe life, conversation on a recognition is not present. We live in that reality which is. Other reality is not present. If the present reality develops and further on a way of strengthening of economic independence of region, that, can, and our children will be witnesses of the status of Dnestr region operating on the present moment. It, as a matter of fact, the postponed status. For this reason there is a settlement process, there is a format "5 + 2" (negotiations with participation of Moldova, Dnestr region, the Russian Federation, Ukraine, OSCE, and also the USA and EU in quality nabljudatelej. - "Ъ-MD") and there are peacemakers who support this format. Russia - the guarantor of safety and the world in all Euroasian region. It will be compelled to spend money, to direct the soldiers-peacemakers and diplomatic representatives that any more blood here did not flow. - how much the prospect of association of Dnestr region and Moldova, in your opinion, is real? - For today such reality is not present. Even there were any shifts, including on a railway communication in the spring, but then all has turned sour. Now we see, that Dnestr region is exposed to the massed psychological attack of the international observers, the organisations. Here often there come delegations every possible "kind дядь" from the West which explain to a management of Dnestr region that it is necessary to finish relations with Russia and urgently to join the Moldavian steam locomotive which goes towards starry-eyed Europe. There is a massed influence up to blackmail of a Dnestr management from some European emissaries. It means that pressure sharply amplifies. In such situation приднестровцы do not see for itself prospects for serious political dialogue with Kishinev. We, naturally, support such dialogue. We consider, and I say it to the Moldavian politicians, that they should be more flexible if are baked about territorial integrity of the state. They should do steps towards, instead of accompany Europeans in blackmail of Dnestr region. Prospects of settlement I do not see for today. And in this situation Russia sees for itself only one requirement - to support the citizens here in all possible ways. "Dnestr region does not give Russia to possibility to take out this ammunition"
- Whether export of the Russian ammunition from warehouses in Колбасне (warehouses in Dnestr region where since times of the USSR thousand tons of an ammunition are stored) will renew in the near future? - We inspected these warehouses. The question on recycling of this ammunition still objectively exists. But there is a position of Ukraine which interferes with export of this ammunition. Until then while an ammunition here, here also there will be a military unit which provides safety of these warehouses. - and why they cannot be utilised? There were offers in this respect - same chamber Donovan (the American detonation chamber for recycling of an ammunition was delivered to Moldova ten years ago but so never and it was not used). And you ask приднестровцев, they are ready to suppose here someone or not? It seems to me, while they to suppose anybody do not gather. Dnestr region does not give Russia to possibility to take out this ammunition for limits Колбасны. Is was at former president Igor Smirnove. But the power was replaced. - now the same. President Shevchyuk is selected by the people, and it, perfectly knowing mood of the voters, acts categorically against this ammunition was destroyed or somewhere was taken out. The people, gone through a slaughter-house of 1992, yet have not felt, that their life became more safe, that is why oppose changes of the status of a warehouse in Колбасне. And we, accordingly, cannot throw these warehouses because as the responsible country we understand where this ammunition can creep away. The vicious circle turns out. - in Russia have started talking about modernisation of Tiraspol airdrome, about repair there a runway. All it for the sake of export therefrom eight not flying Russian helicopters? - We are not going to take out anything irrevocably. If we here have helicopters they are registered in Report №1 of session of Incorporated supervisory commission from 1992. They are necessary to us here, and we have on this full right. - That is, helicopters will be not taken out, and replaced with the new? - We bring an attention to the question only so. We wish to carry on into this account negotiations in a format of Ministers of Defence. We have an agreement on use of air space and airdrome in Tiraspol which should be recovered that we could support communications with our military men in Dnestr region. It not guerrilla group, and an integral part of the Russian armed forces. They should update the arms, regimentals. New or superfluous though on one unit we will not deliver anything there, but that here already is, we will change for the new. - and on whose means the airdrome will be modernised? - It in a normal condition also can accept serious enough cars, including Ил-76. We have an understanding, that the infrastructural part is prepared. It is necessary to recover simply corresponding agreements with Moldova. The Moldavian party has the full right to know, that we here deliver. We respect it. But we do not presume to leave our military men without rear maintenance.